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Len Savage (Bren Builder)

13K views 29 replies 17 participants last post by  Cal.BAR 
#1 ·
I post here in the off chance one of you may know the whereabouts and/or situation regarding Len Savage. He built me a Bren last year (with significant problems). I sent it back to him to be worked on six months ago. Two months ago, he stopped answering e-mails or phone calls.

Any information would be helpful.
 
#2 ·
....where?

It would be helpful if you could state where this individual lives/works. Several times, members who live in the area of a wayward person have been able to 'convince' them to contact folks who have tried to do business with them. If that fails....time for civil or criminal action,esp. if items were sent thru mail...(ie) mail fraud.
 
#5 ·
Yes, that is the right Len Savage. I am, however, surprised that he is not more well known among the firearms (especially Bren) community. He was the first (or one of the first) to re-assemble de-milled Brens for general sale, and ultimately when toe to toe with the ATF over it - with some degree of sensationalism. He was featured on the gun-related show Sons of Guns, and apparently holds a Federal Permit to built F/A weapons. In any event, I have an investigator in GA starting work on him. His company (Historic Arms) is in Franklyn GA.
 
#6 ·
A lot of us know of him, but don't know him personally or have done business. I know lots of people who know him. Don't know why he has stopped communications, but I hope it all gets resolved. Good luck!
 
#7 ·
Len built my BREN. I have not spoken with Len for years but this seems out of character relative to my experience. Mentioning experience, there was a highly respected individual on this site that took a $1000 for work and delivered nothing. He had some legal trouble which put him out of business. I've written this money off since there is little I can do. There is another highly respected individual that has had my Vickers lock and $250 for 4 years and has also delivered nothing. My point is that there is risk and I recommend not waiting too long to act. BTW, my Len-built BREN works lawlessly so he can do excellent work.
 
#8 ·
What we need is local people from the board to speak up and confront some individuals. I'm a retired UA (United Airlines) employee and can travel to most any location in the U.S. for next to free. Let me know by private message if you need help.

Carry On!
Gary
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#10 ·
Talked to Len this morning about this here is what he said (he cant comment because he is waiting on registration approval).

"While awaiting registration I can say I last communicated with the customer about three weeks ago. I received the firearm from the OP as the photos show.

I have three other BREN's that can't leave until strikers that pass QC get here. It is waiting for that one part.

The OP knows this and has been on me to hurry up. There is nothing to discuss, as soon as I get the part, I'll send it."

Here are some pix of the gun as received that he wanted me to post
Metal Lock
Brass Ammunition Metal Bullet Auto part
Revolver Brass
 
#12 ·
Talked to Len this morning about this here is what he said (he cant comment because he is waiting on registration approval).

"While awaiting registration I can say I last communicated with the customer about three weeks ago. I received the firearm from the OP as the photos show.

I have three other BREN's that can't leave until strikers that pass QC get here. It is waiting for that one part.

The OP knows this and has been on me to hurry up. There is nothing to discuss, as soon as I get the part, I'll send it."

Here are some pix of the gun as received that he wanted me to post
View attachment 11667 View attachment 11668 View attachment 11669

Well Cal.BAR, my first question is if that is what you sent back to Len. Is it how it looked originally, and he sent it back to you that way? Or did you get it from him and then soaked it in salt? Seems like there is a bit more to this story (as always).
 
#11 ·
Len Savage--great guy to deal with.....

"plus one" to what Old Soldier posted about Len.

While it has been a few years since I got my SA Bren from Len, he has always been professional and has shown the highest level of integrity in my dealings with him. I started to mention this when the word "wayward" was sort of applied to him: I doubt that it would apply! Len has been featured in a number of shooting publications, such as SGN, MG news, Small Arms Review, etc. and there has NEVER been any mention of anything but the greatest support of the shooting community, esp. FA shooting.

Just my two cents....

Taber
 
#16 ·
Just to chime in a bit, Len has always been a very stand up guy in my book. In my dealings with him, he bent over backwards to help me with a problem that he did not create, nor did he make a dime off of it. I would not hesitate to do business with him tomorrow:lol:
 
#22 ·
Yes, Rocky, and let me be clear I LOVE Len Savage and I am a BIG supporter of his work. He built a beautiful Bren for me in a very short time. It just didn't work right. Now, I can't prove the rifle wasn't rusted before I sent it, and Len can't prove it was rusted when he got it back in June. (although it's A LOT more humid in GA than CA). And he already indicated that he replaced the barrel. By all accounts he is standing by his work and STILL being an upstanding guy. All I ask is continued communications. It's not like a call him every week. But an e-mail or two (or returning a call) would be nice. Last time I received any communication from him was the end of Oct. I'm not out to defame him in any way. I reached out to the community to find him after he stopped communicating with me for two months. I didn't know if he had died, or was sick or whatever. I still live in hope that someday out of the blue the UPS man will bring me back my beautiful Bren gun.
 
#21 ·
Cal. BAR. I feel your pain. As Capt Max 6-7 months is nothing to wait in this specialized market. To make you feel better about your situation; I waited about 14 months for a repairs to be completed on a new M53 from the manufacturer. Made me sick fearing it would be lost or something else. Change over in staff, other projects that pay the bills get put in front of warranty work, yada, yada. Persistence pays off. Don't know Len, but I've done business with most of the other builders out there and they will treat you right. I had one builder promise to build a Zb30 for 2 years finally had to pull the kit back. The kit is still in pieces. What they do is an art, it takes time.

Send Len a certified/ sig required letter.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I am not associated with either the OP or Mr Savage

that rust is 100% caused by corrosive ammo. the gun may have looked clean but that stuff takes weeks to appear. I will say that corrosive ammo was fired and the gun was not cleaned properly using hot water and youngs 303 cleaner or similar product. the gun may have been cleaned with the likes of hoppies or similar but that will not kill the salts, it however will make the barrel look clean for a few days until the rusting gets to a point where it becomes visible to the eye.

if you use corrosive ammo and did not use boiling water you did not clean it regardless of what other products were used
 
#24 · (Edited)
Wow....I just don't know where to begin?

Op (Cal.Bar) is correct in that I have not responded to his calls and emails in the last couple of weeks. It's been weeks not months.

Part of me wants to level the playing field in this little sport and name the OP and his firm....Seems only fair since only I am running without cover of a screen name...

Cal.Bar look at what you have posted here....Your innuendo (you have an investigator on me). Your an attorney you have been insinuating in every communication and your pretty damned demanding as well.

You being an attorney, of all people know what liable is and what can instigate. Dude, seriously go read your own posts here.

You also have to be aware that Georgia is a one party state? That means I most likely have the audio of your phone call to me after four months of feed problems (You are in CA....You supplied the magazine that does not work and is clapped out that you sent here with the gun).

You remember the one when I asked you what did the striker and spring look like and you replied "Where is that?" You told me you never broke the gun down and I had walk you step by step through it over the phone? Four months corrosive ammo every weekend or every other?

You do realize that's on a hard drive somewhere right????

You do realize because we work on evidence we photograph everything when it comes in right????

You surely must also realize that when you copy an image, crop, enlarge or format it shows that date in properties...right?????

Our last communication you demanded I admit your were at fault for nothing and I'm a wanker....even after I warrantied your damage....Given your postings here: On what planet did you think that posting this was going to increase customer service on my end? Any wonder why I don't want to communicate with you?

Let me narrate the story the photos tell:

1). You get your gun from your importing dealer (My company does not do CA)....You insert your clapped out so called pre ban CA mag.....You called after that day at the range complaining the mag fell out several times and when you single fed them it ran great (albeit one at a time).

2). You go shoot it again and the same problems and you ask for an oversized mag catch.....I suggest sending back then, you where enjoying tinkering and tuning your new toy.....I arranged for a CA BREN owner to help you, you contacted him for parts and nothing else (and never paid him).

3). Third time out you stop getting ejection (corrosive ammo over 4 months now with no real cleaning). I ask what gas setting is the gun on and again you had no clue....I walked you through over the phone how to increase and decrease the gas pressure....You turned the gas up until it ejected.

The photo of the gas regulator show you fired on all setting with corrosive and did not clean the gun....The brown chia pet growing on all settings of the regulator tells the story.

4). Gas now so high and corrosion setting in that you started ripping cases in half and sent the gun back.

Gas was so high you swagged the rear internal surface of the lower from bottoming out the striker and bolt carrier (case ripping off lets it all fly backward and it starts to destroy things). It bottomed out in full recoil so hard the piston post spring collapsed and the firing pin was broken in half. The striker was deformed by the amount of force applied.

So after me and my gunsmith did a double face palm, we had pity on you and warrantied your mess when I should not have.

No good deed goes unpunished according to Murphy's Law.

Here we are...

Like everything else the check you paid for the gun with was scanned an imaged. I will refund your money if you like (you received $1500 discount). Or you can wait for the part to come in, I install it and return your firearm per CA and federal law allows from manufacturer to owner.

There is an FFL in Houston TX, former commercial pilot who came by twice to see his two BREN's I can't send him either till the part arrives (same part)....He has waited longer than you??? (have 5 here waiting total)

Wise-Lite and Project Guns no longer make the BREN in any production....Like I told you I only build the 2-4 per year on an as ordered basis....effectively out of production and parts ran out and the supplier of that particular part went bankrupt and I ran out.....

Waiting on custom parts for an out of production firearm...I am truly sorry, it was not intentional at all.
 
#30 ·
Hello Len! Thanks for checking in. As you will note in my initial post, I only asked the group for help after you failed to respond to my multiple e-mails and phone calls. I have no desire to argue this issue with you on this forum. If you received the rifle covered in rust in JUNE when you received it - I just wonder why you didn't mention it until the end of OCT? A fair question which you don't have to answer herein.

I also have no desire for a refund. If you tell me the part will be ready in "x" months, so be it. Just tell me when that is. All I have ever asked of you is continued communication. Please send me an e-mail or PM and simply let me know the status on the part (if you know it).
 
#26 ·
WOW is right.
There is always two sides to a story, and a picture is worth a thousand words they say.
I know I can form an opinion based on this new information, and glad I'm not sequestered in a jury on this case.
It wouldn't take me long to deliberate.
Hope it all works out for both parties involved.
And Len, I wouldn't hesitate to have you do a build for me.
Enough said.
CaptMax
 
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